Hey Lee,
I appreciate the words of encouragement....I think I'm going to need them....again...and again...and again. ;-)
Sterndrive.com advised
there is no pre-assembled seal "kit" for 64-67, that all of the seals
will have to be compiled individually. The guy I talked to at
Sterndrive didn't sound to enthused about having to do that. I sent a followup to see what they are willing to do or what I have to do to get it done.
In the meantime, I've been browsing eBay and found what I think is a usable manual. Can some one confirm that?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-OMC-Stern-Drives-155-HP-Models-Service-Manual-Book_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem19aa0fafbaQQitemZ110227337146QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature
I
think I'm going to need it (will need it anyway) to start looking up individual part numbers
and comparing them to various sites to get the proper seals, particularly if Sterndrive is not willing to lend a hand.
So begins the journey....or...or.... should that be "nightmare"?.....
-Bill
Dallas,
TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Lee Shuster <lee.k.shuster@...> wrote:
From: Lee Shuster <lee.k.shuster@...>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Outdrive Vintage Question
To: "'Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's'" <omc-boats@...timate.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 5:06 PM
HANG IN THERE. &
KEEP STUDYING. I THINK YOU HAVE A FIGHTIN' CHANCE w/ THE STERNDRIVE.COM
FOLKS. THEY HAVE A PRETTY GOOD KNOWLEDGE AND DECENT BONEYARD. They should be
able to help you figure out what you've
got.
My gut
tells me, you would been far better off if "someone" hadn't slipped you that
64-67 "mystery" leg. But hey - "you are where you are,"
right?
Lee
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:04 PM
To: Evinrude
& Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats]
Outdrive Vintage Question
Given what I've found on the outdrive thus far;
missing O-Ring in swivel housing, no oil in the upper or lower cases, the
mismatched wear on the ball gears, I'm tending to think the outdrive was
never truly run or run together on this engine as a single unit except
when I did it briefly.
Regarding "pedigree"......The visible
gear inside the upper housing has 25 cogs to it. The impeller shaft
that inserts into the lower unit has 20 splines, and finally the ball gear
on the upper unit has 22 splines ( I looked at the ball gear on the
transom again and find it really has minimal wear so I'm going to leave
well enough alone on that one!!).
In browsing for
parts and info (been sitting here for hours), I see on the
www.sterndrive.com site that 25/20 cogs suggests (assuming I am reading it
right) the outdrive is a 64-67 120hp drive matching that of the V6.
No?
I have a sinking feeling my parts search just got
exponentially more challenging if that's true.
-Bill
Dallas,
TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
---
On Tue, 5/26/09, Lee Shuster <lee.k.shuster@...>
wrote:
From:
Lee Shuster <lee.k.shuster@...>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats]
Outdrive Vintage Question
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the
1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...>
Date: Tuesday,
May 26, 2009, 10:54 AM
Your approach to diagnosing the ball
gears appears sound. Since "someone" has already apparently changed out
the powerhead and the 4-cap, long leg drive, it's difficult to say how
long those ball gears have been mated? YOU MAY HAVE AN INTERMEDIATE
SECTION of unknown origin? From your pictures, the paint colors
and wiring changes appear to validate my thinking.
I don't have
any first-hand knowledge of "Kits" or pricing.
What I would say,
just as a friendly caution, IS THIS: It's very easy to get an
incorrect part, especially when you aren't totally sure of the unit's
PEDIGREE. Just be sure you understand that and know their return and
re-stocking policies, in case they don't get you parts that fit
correctly. My advice is work with a supplier who really
understands the OMC Electric Shift LONG-LEGS from 1964 to 1967. The
4-bolt cap drives are indeed different and the parts are harder to
correctly source.
I would highly recommend you acquire an OMC
(factory) parts manual for the sterndrive (not the boat) so you can
reference OMC PART NUMBERS. The exploded illustrations are also
helpful.
Lee
________________________________________
From:
omc-boats-bounces@...
[omc-boats-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of BLDFW [bldfw@...]
Sent: Tuesday,
May 26, 2009 9:29 AM
To: Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's
and 70's
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Outdrive Vintage
Question
Thanks Lee,
My first exposure to the 'odd-fire'
is through your site so part of my search on the listing that came up(http://www.enginepartswarehouse.com/enginecatalog/GENERALMOTORS.PDF)
was to check the 'odd-fire' reference. It was referenced in
several locations but not as it related to my particular casting
ID. Given my almost non-existent knowledge in this
area, I shall defer to your experience.
With regards to the gear
check, I'm going to check that today. I've removed the top of the
drive and can see the upper gear head (looks pristine by the way).
I'll be back to shortly with the results.
Following up on
my earlier inquiry regarding the ball gears, the gear head on the
outdrive has more wear than that of the transom gear. The manual
I've been reading makes a particular reference to insuring (when the
outdrive is removed) the gears are remeshed in their same position
suggesting some type of significance to matching the existing wear
patterns. If left as is, the outdrive gear is going to generate
differing wear on the transom gear moving forward. Since the
outdrive is already off and torn down for seal replacement, it seems to
me now is the time to just replace them and start fresh. I
see a kit on eBasicPower.com for about $201.00. Are you aware of a
better source for that?
Thanks!
-Bill
Dallas,
TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
---
On Tue, 5/26/09, Lee Shuster (lib1) <lib1@...>
wrote:
From: Lee Shuster (lib1) <lib1@...>
Subject:
Re: [OMC-Boats] Outdrive Vintage Question
To: "Evinrude & Johnson
Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...>
Date:
Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 9:24 AM
That's good to know -- so
you'll be able to correctly source engine parts. Now we just need to
figure out what sterndrive you have? Have you figured out what upper
gear ratios you have yet?
But I beg to differ, as all Buick
V6's with that casting number and 3.7L or 225 cu in use ODD-FIRE
Crankshafts.
This was due to the fact that the engine was exactly
2/3'rds of the Buick 300 V8. Result is a slightly rough but distinctive
idle due to the 120-degree spacing of the crank throws.
(OMC only
used odd-fire Buick V6's until they switched to the 90-degree Chevy V6
much later.)
You can read all about the technology and history of
the world's first mass produced V6 (both odd-fire and even fire) at: http://hhscott.com/evinrude/buick_v6.htm
Lee
On
May 25, 2009, at 11:14 PM, BLDFW wrote:
Hi Lee,
I looked
up the block casting number (1381623) stamped on my V6 and found it to
be a 64-67 Buick V6 225. If does not appear to be an "odd fire'
version.
Also, I added a bunch of new outdrive/impeller waterpump
pics on my photo site. You can click on the "outdrive" tag to the
left to narrow it down.
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude
Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
---
On Sun, 5/24/09, Lee Shuster (lib1) <lib1@...<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lib1@...>>
wrote:
From: Lee Shuster (lib1) <lib1@...<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lib1@...>>
Subject:
Re: [OMC-Boats] Outdrive Vintage Question
To: "Evinrude & Johnson
Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=omc-boats@...>>
Date:
Sunday, May 24, 2009, 7:14 PM
>From the looks of things in
your electrical pictures, "someone" has replaced your engine (not
original OMC block color) which also explains why you can't find an OMC
ID plate that is normally riveted on the Port cyl head near the front.
It can be hard to tell which Buick V6 you have (the made cu in
displacements of 196-225-231-odd and 231-even and 252-even. You'll have
to check casting numbers to determine which block you have and then look
them up on the many Buick V6 web sites. Let's assume for now you have a
225 odd-fire V6 that was built by GM or Kaiser Jeep. I would be
concerned (as perviously mentioned about an automotive water pump,
because most shade-tree mechanics would just trade engines and not move
over the marine-rated accessories.
Beginning in 1969 OMC began
using two large ROUND 10-pin electrical connectors, that replaced two
white, rectangular Molex connectors and a dangerous open (hot) terminal
strip. The YELLOW Round Connector is used to bundle 6 wires, used
for Bilge pump/blower, Tilt Motor, Tilt Relays and Electric Shift
Control. The original BLACK Round connector bundles 9 wires that all
route to engine functions, like instrument sensors, starter,
alternator, regulator, coil, essentially all engine attached
devices. On pre 69 models the open terminal block had three heavy
current wires. A Ground (Black) and two Positives, one Green and one
Brown. The Brown was the Alternator output. The Green was used to feed
the tilt relays and starter relay. Its hard to tell from the pictures
how these are presently wired, but they don't appear to follow factory
conventions.
It looks like "someone" took some short cuts when
they replaced your engine, outdrive and possible your intermediate
section as well (with the older style electrical terminal block). The
terminal barrier strip not present on 1969 - 1970 OMC boats is the give
away. The also eliminated the Black round engine service connector and
hard-spliced in the engine wiring with what look a lot like yellow wire
nuts (could be crimp-ons, can really tell). They also did some
rather "funky" wiring like the large red wire they have run down to the
starter or battery to feed the tilt relays. On pre-68 mode this wire
normally ties into the barrier strip, which apparently came with your
older replacement intermediate section.
Just curious, what color
is your outdrive leg painted? Does it show evidence of having been
repainted? (My 1970 catalog shows a navy blue sterndrive on the Evinrude
explorer.) There are a lot of not so obvious differences on the older
4-bolt cap units. Since they were older and only made 3-4 years, vs a
10-year run on the 5-cap units, many parts are not interchangeable and
are much harder to fine. I wouldn't worry as much about the
condition of the ball gears, as I would counting input shaft to prop
shaft rotations, to determine what overall (engine to prop) gear ratio
you have. Ideally the V6 at sea level should run a 1.54:1.00 overall
ratio, or if you want to count upper gear teeth you should have 25 and
25 on a V6. (lower gears are always 15 and 23 teeth regardless of
engine).
Lee
On May 24, 2009, at 1:34 PM, BLDFW
wrote:
Hi Lee
I attached a pic of the engine compartment
that shows one plug and a bundle of wires that might have been a plug at
one time. What's that tell you?
Also, exactly where would I
find the engine ID?? I've tried to find it before but not sure I'm
looking in the right place. In the center of the block at the top
rear is a number; 1381623, along with a number 5 by itself and the GM
stamp. If that's not it, tell me where else to look. I
didn't see any stampings at the end of the heads so not sure where else
to look.
Also, attached are two pics of the ball gears.
Seems the gear on the outdrive is more worn than the one on the
transom. Is that normal? In anycase, I think I'm going to go
ahead and replace them....or should I do only the outdrive?
Thoughts?
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155
Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
---
On Sun, 5/24/09, Lee Shuster <lks@...<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lks@...>>
wrote:
From: Lee Shuster <lks@...<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lks@...>>
Subject:
Re: [OMC-Boats] Outdrive Vintage Question
To: "Evinrude & Johnson
Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=omc-boats@...>>
Date:
Sunday, May 24, 2009, 1:48 PM
You have an older drive or at least
one that "someone" has turned into a "hybrid." I can think of other
genetic terms but won't use them on the family-oriented
lists.
Welcome to the world of old boats. It will be
interesting to hear what you find, including gear ratios. (Often times
"someone" will exchange a sterndrive from a different boat with
different gear ratios).
Check something on the Buick V6 for me?
Can you locate the engine ID tag and find a model number? Does you
Buick have two large ROUND electrical conectors (One Yellow, One Black)
located on the Starboard, Aft area of the engine?
Most likely the
engine is original and the Sterndrive has been
replaced.
Lee
On May 24, 2009, at 12:20 PM, BLDFW
wrote:
My Explorer is a 1970 model according to the plate on the
riser. In studying the service manual as I start to dismantle the
outdrive, it suggests that the outdrive is a 1967 or earlier
model. The manual states;
"Remove the exhaust
housing cover attaching screws. On models since 1967, five screws
secure the exhaust housing cover in place; prior to 1967, only four
screws were used."
Is it normal that a '70 vintage Evinrude would
have a '67 or earlier vintage outdrive or should I assume it's been
replaced at some point?
Thanks.
Bill
Dallas, TX
1970
Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
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