I've had two separate water pump failures, neither of which caused the belt to squeal. As I recall, one failure was the bearings which eventually led to leaks and excessive end play, but no belt squeal. The other failure was the impeller separating from the shaft -- virtually impossible to find without internal inspection (other than the obvious lack of water flow). If you can tell things are hotter than they should be then clearly its some kind of cooling problem. I find I can get some feel for the pump condition my removing the hose and looking/feeling around inside. That's an easy 2-minute check you can do before moving onto the more time consuming diagnostics.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Mathewson
To: omc-boats@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:08 AM
Subject: [OMC-Boats] 70 Seasport - Cooling
Lee/Andy,
I forgot to mention it's got the Buick V-6 and beside the light the other indication was some knockingand an extremely hot condition in engine "doghouse" and what looked like steam, but no leak. Oil is good and not burnt so I agree that it's unlikely the oil pump. Possible a stuck (closed position) thermostat? I don't recall looking at the water pump while running, but if that quit wouldn't the belt squeal or break? After looking at the light, it is a "Two Light " warning whcih still isn't very helpful. That will be a wintertime project to add water temp and oil pressure gauges.
Ron Mathewson
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "omc-boats-request@..." <omc-boats-request@...>
To: omc-boats@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:33:08 AM
Subject: OMC-Boats Digest, Vol 28, Issue 35
Note: Forwarded message is attached.
Send OMC-Boats mailing list submissions to
omc-boats@...
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
omc-boats-request@...
You can reach the person managing the list at
omc-boats-owner@...
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OMC-Boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Help! Trailer wheel bearing size? (Andy Perakes)
2. Re: Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made
(Dave Rusilas)
3. Re: Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made (BLDFW)
4. Re: &0 Seasport Overheat issues (Lee Shuster (lib1))
5. Lower Unit Rebuild (BLDFW)
6. Re: Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made
(Lee Shuster)
7. Re: &0 Seasport Overheat issues (ANDY PERAKES)
8. Gauges and Off-topic comment (Lee Shuster)
-----Inline Message Follows-----
As an afterthought, I just went on a long trip and bought spare bearings just in case I needed to make some roadside repairs. This was for a Karavan Trailer so it won't help you specifically identify your bearings, but perhaps some of the cross-reference material might be helpful if you can't pull part numbers as Don mentioned. If you can get dimensions for the industry standard part number (i.e. L44649 for a 1 1/16" ID) off the sites, maybe you can measure and compare to the ones you have....which are hopefully an industry standard. Btw, as previously discussed here, the auto shops were useless even when I gave them the industry part #, but I've always had excellent results ordering from eTrailer.com and my local trailer shop.
http://www.karavantrailers.com/site_uploads/parts/Chapter1-Axles-PDF.pdf
http://www.etrailer.com/c-bearings.htm
----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas" <dwync@...>
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Help! Trailer wheel bearing size?
> Most bearings have a number etched on the edges of the inner race and outer race that can be cross referenced at a good automotive store or bearing supply store. The bearing would have to be destroyed pretty bad if you could not read the numbers on it.Wash the old bearing and look for the manufacturer's number on the sides.
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
Yes. I have one on my '69 155. 14" dia x 19" pitch. SS props have odd pitch numbers.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: BLDFW <bldfw@...>
To: Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's <omc-boats@...>
Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 6:54 pm
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made
There such a thing as an SS blade for our type of sterndrive?
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC Sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Lee Shuster <Lee.Shuster@...> wrote:
From: Lee Shuster <Lee.Shuster@...>
Subject: [OMC-Boats] Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made
To: "'Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's'" <omc-boats@...>
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 2:47 PM
http://www.turbo-props.com/cPage.php?id=389
Watch interesting Video link to learn how boat props are made.
Lee
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
Did you have an aluminum prop beforehand and if so, did you experience a notable performance increase when switching to SS?
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC Sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Tue, 8/18/09, Dave Rusilas <drusilas@...> wrote:
From: Dave Rusilas <drusilas@...>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made
To: omc-boats@...
Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:56 AM
Yes. I have one on my '69 155. 14" dia x 19" pitch. SS props have odd pitch numbers.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: BLDFW <bldfw@...>
To: Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's <omc-boats@...>
Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 6:54 pm
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made
There such a thing as an SS blade for our type of sterndrive?
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC Sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Lee Shuster <Lee.Shuster@...> wrote:
From: Lee Shuster <Lee.Shuster@...>
Subject: [OMC-Boats] Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made
To: "'Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's'" <omc-boats@...>
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 2:47 PM
http://www.turbo-props.com/cPage.php?id=389
Watch interesting Video link to learn how boat props are made.
Lee
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________OMC-Boats mailing listOMC-Boats@...://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
Ron,
All the wiring diagrams I've ever looked at for all OMC/Johnson/Evinrude boats show separate, individual bulbs for both HOT and OIL senders. It very well could be on later (67-up) models these bulbs are physically housed behind a common lens on the helm? Some models may use combinations of gauges and idiot lights, so I'll assume you have no gauges and only lights.
The temperature switch/sender should CLOSE, providing a ground to the light right around 195 - 205 deg F. (Normal operating temps are 140 to 170 deg F) The common OMC part no is 379756 for the temp sender switch. These are equipped with 1/4 blade terminals. What indications beside the light to use observe the HOT condition? DO you know how to check the TELL-TALE water-stream indicator on the STARBOARD sterndrive pivot point?
If you use a temperature GAUGE rather than the idiot light, use OMC part no 171960. These measure about 450 ohms at 100 deg F and drop to 130 ohms at 160 deg F. These are equipped with a threaded terminal with hex nut and require a ring terminal. You can replace the idiot light sender and install a much more informative gauge . But you need to use the appropriate sending unit.
The wiring is common to either type, so no wiring changes are required except for the forementioned terminal. The temp senders are usually located on top of intake manifolds near the thermostat housing.
I seriously doubt you have an oil pressure issue (assuming you HAVE checked the dip stick for proper oil level). You can also change out the switch type sending unit for a oil pressure gauge. The oil pressure gauge sending units are physically larger and most like WILL require a threaded pipe fitting adaptor to provide required physical clearance.
I've done both water temperature and oil pressure gauges on my boat and find the water temperature gauge far more informative over a variety of conditions. Lights are either ON or OFF, where gauges obviously have the advantage of providing a range of information.
Oil pump? Extremely doubtful. But very easy to check: Disconnect the wiring lead from the oil switch sender. Connect an ohmmeter between sender terminal and good ground. Turn on ignition switch. Observe ohmmeter, which should indicate a closed circuit (simulating a OIL LIGHT ON condition). START engine, observe ohmmeter indication m OPEN CIRCUIT (simulating an OIL LIGHT OFF condition.) If meter doesn't immediately indicate an open circuit after starting engine and increasing idle to 2000 RPM, shutdown engine and replace sender switch. If new switch, doesn't open circuit while engine is running, check lubrication system (oil pump) or check for excessive main bearing wear.
I'd bet on cooling first.
Good luck.
Lee
On Aug 17, 2009, at 9:19 PM, Andy Perakes wrote:
I don't have any materials with me, but I could've sworn the idiot lights were for oil pressure and water temperature. I seem to recall one light says "Oil" and the other "Hot," but you could have different instrumentation. Anyhow, the one and only time my "Hot" light came on, it was a bad water pump.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Mathewson
To: omc-boats@...
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:40 PM
Subject: [OMC-Boats] &0 Seasport Overheat issues
All interested,
I got all the tilt issues work out, brand new battery and set out for another sea trial. Starts easy, idles smooth but was not accelerating very well and I attribute that to old gas and sitting for so long. After 10 or so minutes of putting along @... RPM I get the red "Hot Oil " warning lot on. If I slow it down it will turn off. I'm still getting a tattle tale stream from the outdrive and no other issues I can see. First question: Is that Hot Oil light a pressure or temp switch and where is it collecting the data from? I ran it a little longer after the light came on and it got real hot, but I have no way of know HOW Hot. I shut it down and had my friend tow me back in. Good news, it re starts so it's not broke inside. Oil pump?
Any words of advice will be helpful.
Ron Mathewson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "omc-boats-request@..." <omc-boats-request@...>
To: omc-boats@...
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 12:00:00 PM
Subject: OMC-Boats Digest, Vol 28, Issue 29
Note: Forwarded message is attached..
Send OMC-Boats mailing list submissions to
omc-boats@...
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
omc-boats-request@...
You can reach the person managing the list at
omc-boats-owner@...
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OMC-Boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (Lee Shuster (lib1))
2. Re: OMC/Johnson and Evinrude Shifter switches (jd)
3. Re: 1964 Sweet 16 (...and another) (jd)
4. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (jd)
5. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (Lee Shuster (lib1))
-----Inline Message Follows-----
JD,
The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
Does that make sense?
BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
Lee
On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>
> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>
> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>
> jeff d
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
OMG! I think entire shifters come up on ebay for way less!
For those who care - my glue job held to reassemble switch, lubed the hell out of it, but as soon as I moved the little lever back and forth to test it broke again. Shouldn't have happened. But the fit with those little plastic pieces is so tight, i think that is what caused it to break in the first place. Too tight to rotate. Maybe old plastic shrunk a little or something? Anyway, installed my 1 yr older metal back up switch and everything seems to work fine. Haven't tested F/R at dock yet, but should be fine. That metal switch is nice and smooth, feels solid. No neutral safety feature, but oh well - just have to be careful and not start in gear. So this websites "new" switches for $195 look like they are entirely plastic. Not even the arm is metal. I would be wary.
On Aug 14, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Lee K. Shuster (lks) wrote:
> New Replacement Switch for "only" $195.79
> http://www.sterndrive.info/electric_shift_replacement_switch.html
>
> Maybe Phil could add this link to the website?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Shuster (lib1)" <lib1@...>
> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...>
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:07 AM
> Subject: [OMC-Boats] OMC/Johnson and Evinrude Shifter switches
>
>
>> Jeff D,
>>
>> Yes the black knob is a throttle friction adjustment.
>>
>> But the switch you mention is worth alerting all OMC electric shift owners about:
>>
>> There are four different switches used on OMC boats. The dividing line was 1969. Two for E-rudes, two for Johnson/OMC's.
>>
>> Both Evinrude (push-button) and Johnson/OMC (single lever) and third party (like Morse) introduced the 5-wire Neutral-only starter interlock circuit, for 1969, most likely as a result of liability concerns, but I don't know for sure. (If you remember, a lot of federal safety legislation was mandated in 1968 on the automotive industry, as a result of Ralph Nader's book, "Unsafe at Any Speed."
>>
>> Prior to 1969 all remote control shift swicthes used only 3-wires and did not have the safety interlock. E-rude pushbuttons all have a mechanical sliding "aperature" that prevents operating the shifter buttons beyond a partial throttle setting.
>> If this ever slips out of place, and prevents you from shifting (being stuck in neutral, at your favorite fishing hole, 5 miles off shore is not FUN!) simply carry your hand Phillips-head and pop off the cover surround the push buttons. This will allow you do move the slider back into place and allow you to now engage forward or reverse.
>>
>> In my opinion, the Evinrude design, while perhaps less ergonomic (it takes two hands to simultaneously move the throttle and shift, as in docking) is a more robust design, and the switch assembly rarely fails. Johnson owners aren't as lucky.
>>
>> The Johnson/OMC switches are a weak point and often fail. In fact, I've come across a couple of sources for present-day, aftermarket sources. A gentleman, in Portland, OR is rebuilding these switches and a Canadian source has claimed it has ramped up production of new switches. (I have no direct experience with either and I'll leave it to others on this list to track them down and have Phil add it to his website.)
>>
>> Bottomline is these switches are like gold. In either style, 5 or 3- wire they are extremely hard to come by. Supply and demand dictates market prices. Anyone who owns a Johnson should start looking for a spare today! You should locate the current third-party sources. Just buying a used control off eBay, won't insure you are getting a useable switch. About half of them are defective, or will soon fail.
>>
>> I've also got a little tip for 69-70 Johnson 5-wire owners. I find that once in awhile my 5-wire, will only "reset" properly if I "back" the throttle into REVERSE after shutting down the engine in NEUTRAL. I call this my built-in, anti-theft device, like having to know the secret key-code combination. Only problem with this little quirk, is you don't want a big barge bearing down on you when your forget the code!
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>>
>>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>>
>>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>>
>>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing.. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>>
>>> jeff d
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>>> OMC-Boats@...
>>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
.....and another one in Oregon......
I drove by it, saw from a distance, have no idea of condition. It's in a used boat parts store yard with a bunch of other boats. yard is located at about 220th and Sandy Blvd in Fairview (basically Portland). I have no idea how rare those boats are but maybe it's a good find too. I actually drive by that spot all the time and would be more than happy to snap a few photos and post for any non-portland peeps interested on the list. Lemme know. Jeff D
On Aug 15, 2009, at 6:34 AM, Ted Robinson wrote:
> Hi all,
> There is a 1964 Sweet 16 advertised locally for $400.00.
> Anyone want me to look at it for them?
>
> Ted Robinson 1970 SeaSport
> Terrebonne, Oregon
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
oh jeez. ok this is weird.
-I've looked at that screw and associated parts in both the housings i have and it just seems to be connected to nothing. Hard to understand conceptually how the things does ANYTHING, but i believe you.
- unless im missing something, this particular adjustment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. i'm confused. When would you ever need an adjustment that controls hot/cold starts and the position of the "gas" lever? That seems like putting an adjustment on a cars gas peddle to control whether or not you give it gas when you start it. Why?
- now i am wondering if i really screwed things up and perhaps played around with that screw and that's what caused that plastic disk piece in the switch to break? I easily could have, but don't remember at what point i actually started messing with the screw. All i know is it was sort of behaving wierd. Sometimes cranking, sometimes not.. And moving the red lever may have made a difference in there somewhere cause i'm sure out there on the water i was in a slight panic moving stuff back and forth. But I DIDN'T mess with the screw out on the water. Then at some point got it to crank again. Perhaps the red lever position? Then back at dock assumed i had some electrical thing happening with the switch. I think that's probably the point where I fiddled with the screw - mainly out of curiousity (as in "hmmm what's this do?")- while disassembling and testing the switch. The whole things seems weird and I'm still not really understanding that screw. But maybe i tightened it too much or something trying to see what it did, played with the throttle lever, and broke my switch? Really doubtful - i'm pretty careful. But it seemed to be doing nothing when i turned the screw. The shift lever moved the same, the red lever moved the same. Who knows.
Nice to know that screw adjustment can completely disable your boat though. If a boat is not starting, that is probably the last thing anyone would check!
On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Lee Shuster (lib1) wrote:
> JD,
>
> The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
>
> I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
>
> In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>
> If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
>
> Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>
>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>
>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>
>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>
>> jeff d
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
Yup, I didn't realize it tell I read it with my own eyes. It's just another example of why it pays to RTFM. I cross-referenced and the Seloc manual mentions it as well, but in a slightly more confusing manor than the factory OMC manual.
And OBTW, the 1969 OMC/Evinrude/Johnson manual doesn't mention the 5-wire units. But 1970 and newer does.
Remember this applies to only the 5-wire Johnson & OMC controls. E-rude PUSH-BUTTON owners can ignore. Your "LOCK-OUT" failure typically allows you to start the engine, you just can't shift. (Covered in a prior posting.)
My ski lessons got rained out today at Jordanelle Reservoir, near Park City. 46 F and 3-ft white caps at 08:15 AM. Never got of the trailer. Oh, well.
Lee
On Aug 15, 2009, at 12:04 PM, jd wrote:
> oh jeez. ok this is weird.
>
> -I've looked at that screw and associated parts in both the housings i have and it just seems to be connected to nothing. Hard to understand conceptually how the things does ANYTHING, but i believe you.
>
> - unless im missing something, this particular adjustment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. i'm confused. When would you ever need an adjustment that controls hot/cold starts and the position of the "gas" lever? That seems like putting an adjustment on a cars gas peddle to control whether or not you give it gas when you start it. Why?
>
> - now i am wondering if i really screwed things up and perhaps played around with that screw and that's what caused that plastic disk piece in the switch to break? I easily could have, but don't remember at what point i actually started messing with the screw. All i know is it was sort of behaving wierd. Sometimes cranking, sometimes not. And moving the red lever may have made a difference in there somewhere cause i'm sure out there on the water i was in a slight panic moving stuff back and forth. But I DIDN'T mess with the screw out on the water. Then at some point got it to crank again. Perhaps the red lever position? Then back at dock assumed i had some electrical thing happening with the switch. I think that's probably the point where I fiddled with the screw - mainly out of curiousity (as in "hmmm what's this do?")- while disassembling and testing the switch. The whole things seems weird and I'm still not really understanding that screw. But maybe i tightened it too much or something trying to see what it did, played with the throttle lever, and broke my switch? Really doubtful - i'm pretty careful. But it seemed to be doing nothing when i turned the screw. The shift lever moved the same, the red lever moved the same. Who knows.
>
> Nice to know that screw adjustment can completely disable your boat though. If a boat is not starting, that is probably the last thing anyone would check!
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Lee Shuster (lib1) wrote:
>
>> JD,
>>
>> The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
>>
>> I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
>>
>> In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever..
>>
>> Does that make sense?
>>
>> BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>>
>> If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
>>
>> Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>>
>>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>>
>>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>>
>>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>>
>>> jeff d
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>>> OMC-Boats@...
>>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
Hey Andy,
I had a classic car one time that needed a valve job so I took it to a car club mechanic byddy. He charged over $800 to do it. I visited his shop one afternoon and discovered all he did was to pull the heads and send them to someone else to the valve work. Well heck, buddy or no buddy, I could have saved $600-700 by doing that work myself, so the next two valve jobs I did the same way saving a bunch of money.
I'll admit up front to having a certain disdain for greasy grungy mechanical work and would really prefer someone else to do it....but not enough to shell out hundreds or thousands when I KNOW I can do the work myself. So....with a deep breath and gritted teeth.... I get my hands dirty.
I found on my last (and first) boat that marine work is terribly expensive to farm out soooooo.......this time, after obtaining the applicable service manual and the oh-so indispensible parts manual and studying both, I resealed my sterndrive myself. It wasn't difficult and I easily saved myself probably $1200-1400 or more in the process.
I was going to check the lower unit as well but since there wasn't any obvious reason to do so, I decided not to venture into it except for the seal on the outer cap behind the prop. It was a good experience as now I "know" first hand what condition the drive is in should anything come up down the line. Those of us that choose to do the work ourselves could sure benefit from hearing your experiences with it.
Maybe you can chronicalizer you venture in diary form with pics??
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC Sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Andy Perakes <aperakes@...> wrote:
From: Andy Perakes <aperakes@...>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Forward Clutch Won't Engage on Late-1967 3-wire Shifter - Update
To: "'Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's'" <omc-boats@...>
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 11:17 PM
Wow, guys, I can't even begin to thank you for all the help that's come in. Short of flying up here and doing it himself, Don sent me just about everything he could offline, right down to a tools and parts list. I tried bidding on the clutch spring Joe pointed out on eBay and after the price jumped past $45 (hope I wasn't bidding against any of you!), I decided I needed to confirm the problem before randomly buying parts. I made a note of the Tacoma parts source Scott sent and expect I'll be checking prices and inventory there before I'm done.
Unfortunately it looks as though my season is not only over, but I have no choice but to tackle this myself. I called the mechanic who usually does my work when I don't have time and he said the part was $422 and labor would run $600 - $1000. By the time you add in seals, lube, provision, etc. it'll probably push the $2k Don was quoted. So my plan is to start by spending a lot of time studying everything I can and collecting tools, then I'll try to get it apart and confirm the problem is the spring tab and not the coil as Lee thinks before tracking down other parts. The boat is now safely in my garage at the lake and once I can get the tools gathered there, its actually a much better place to work than home...at least until it gets cold. If I can't wrap things up before winter, I'll have to try getting the lower gearcase removed and into my basement at home for a winter project. Also on that to do list will be a custom designed ski harness that can't reach the drive! Thanks again, all!
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Shuster
To: 'Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's'
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Forward Clutch Won't Engage on Late-1967 3-wire Shifter - Update
Andy,
There's another easy way to check electrical operation of the coil. With the ignition key on, but motor not running, shift from neutral to forward and then repeat for reverse.
You should be able to detect similar current flow for both directions. You can usually observe this a couple of different ways: A) Close obeservation of the ammeter, and I do mean very close. B) Close observation of a light bulb or volt meter, as there should be a barely perceptable voltage drop when the coil engages (this is also a function of state of battery charge, ie a smaller weaker battery, will have a larger voltage drop. I'm guessing (educated) here, but I've never heard of a clutch coil electrical failure due t0 mechanical interference/stoppage. Clutch sping yes, coil no. The "tab" is part of the spring.
Without access to the special tools, you mention, personally I wouldn't attempt to do the lower unit repairs in the wild. My educated guess is you'll be able to get all the parts back in Detroit. So if it were mine, I'd call it a season and do the repairs with the proper tools and service manuals handy vs on the edge of a lake or back of the trailer. Sorry my news isn't happier.
Lee
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: omc-boats-bounces@... [mailto:omc-boats-bounces@...] On Behalf Of ANDY PERAKES
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:16 AM
To: Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Forward Clutch Won't Engage on Late-1967 3-wire Shifter - Update
Thanks, Lee. I just realized my earlier reply to Don went only to him, but I was able to walk my wife through measuring the coil over the phone this morning. Unfortunately I only have a cheap multimeter with 10k or 1k scales so both readings of "0" could effectively have been "0" else 4.5 - 6.5 ohms on that scale. If I can get the parts this week, I feel fairly confident I can do the repairs next weekend. I think my two biggest concerns are:
1) Do I need any special tools to get it apart and put it back together?
2) Getting parts (especially not know what part(s) failed)
I lost all of my special tools (gear/bearing pullers, clip spreaders, etc.) with my Dad's toolbox (long story so let's just say I hope none of you ever have to experience the horrors of Alzeheimer's) and I only have a limited tool set at the lake. It was late by the time we got back in so I ended up leaving my whole rig there (including manuals - d'oh!); if you think its the spring tab that broke and I can find one for a reasonable price, I just assume get one now (I have much better luck finding parts near Detroit vs. the small town in Ontario where I boat). Its not just the repair costs, but if I have to depend on a shop, my season will most likely be over and August is the best month around here. Is this spring tab part of the spring itself, i.e. I need to find a spring pack? While I'm waiting for my wife to bring my manuals back, I'll try pulling the part #s from the BRP site in hopes of tracking parts down after work today (Michigan Marine Gear usually has this kind of stuff in stock). What about gaskets, springs, circlips, etc. -- anything else you think I'll need?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Shuster (lib1)" <lib1@...>
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:58:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Forward Clutch Won't Engage on Late-1967 3-wire Shifter - Update
First check the forward and reverse coils (one at a time with an
ohmeter, out of circuit.)
A good coil will read between 4..5 and 6.5 ohms.
Most likely the electrical coil is okay but the spring tab has broken
off.
I wouldn't recommend fuse-protecting the coils, but you can calculate
the current flow in amps using Ohm's law. I generally see 2 to 3 amps
current draw on my digital ohmeter, when shifting with the motor not
running and battery at approximately 12.3 volts.
Lee
On Aug 16, 2009, at 10:46 PM, jd wrote:
> yikes. this strikes fear in the hearts of ........me.
>
> both the up and down wires are pretty accessible before they get to
> the outdrive stuff.
>
> a) any technical reason why a person couldn't put an inline fuse on
> both those wires just for situations like this? It would be pretty
> easy to do.
>
> b) any technical reason why OMC didn't back in the day?
>
>
> (there i go again, wanting to put fuses on everything)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 16, 2009, at 7:54 PM, ANDY PERAKES wrote:
>
>> Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. I was a bit surprised there
>> was no fuse -- at least not one outside the stern drive (I guess
>> there could be one inside, but it doesn't show on the schematics
>> and doesn't seem a likely place to put one). What I didn't get to
>> do was test the resistance of the coils so I guess that's next, but
>> barring any big surprises from the group, it looks like I'll be
>> taking my first foray into the lower unit. It still seems odd to
>> me that the coil would go so quickly like that, but I guess it's
>> possible. There's no sound like something chunking around or loose
>> when I turn the prop by hand or run in reverse.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Don Mandelas" <dmandelas@...>
>> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...
>> >
>> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:20:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Forward Clutch Won't Engage on Late-1967 3-
>> wire Shifter - Update
>>
>> Since you have power all the way back then I guess its not a fuse
>> which would protect the forward coil.
>>
>> Don
>> 1697 Sportsman 155
>>
>>
>> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:17:09 -0400
>> From: aperakes@...
>> To: omc-boats@...
>> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Forward Clutch Won't Engage on Late-1967 3-
>> wire Shifter - Update
>>
>> I was able to trace power all the way back to the stern drive so
>> its not the shifter switch or another break in electrical power.
>> At this point it doesn't appear to be something I can repair in the
>> water so we're starting to paddle. Obviously a fried coil is one
>> possibility; can anyone name any other high-probablility
>> possibilities? Thanks!
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "ANDY PERAKES" <aperakes@...>
>> To: omc-boats@...
>> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:15:37 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>> Subject: [OMC-Boats] Forward Clutch Won't Engage on Late-1967 3-
>> wire Shifter
>>
>>
>> So once again I made the mistake of trusting someone else to ensure
>> the ski
>> line was clear of the drive and once again got a harness cable
>> wrapped
>> around the drive. Only a small ding in the prop and a slight bend
>> in the
>> shear pin (for which I had a spare and easily changed), but now my
>> forward
>> clutch won't engage (reverse work's fine). I have the late-1967 3-
>> wire
>> set-up out of the shifter, but unfortunately I can't see any more
>> than that
>> given the conditions. (I should add I'm on the water so I don't
>> not have
>> access to any manuals, limited tools, and its a bit too rocky to be
>> poking
>> around very much.) If anyone happens to see this and has any
>> thoughts I can
>> try before giving up and paddling back in, I'd sure appreciate it.
>> Even
>> though I have a 3-wire, I've already tried Lee's 5-wire trick of
>> shutting
>> down in neutral and backing in reverse; didn't work. Thanks!
>>
>> Andy
>> 1967 Reveler
>>
>> _______________________________________________ OMC-Boats mailing
>> list OMC-Boats@... http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>>
>> Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up
>> to on Facebook. Find out more.
>> _______________________________________________ OMC-Boats mailing
>> list OMC-Boats@... http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate..com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
--------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
Bill,
Yes, an SST prop will typically provide about 1.5 to 2 mph top speed increase. It will also provide about a 2 to 5 percent fuel efficiency increase along with less RPM slippage on hole shots.
One reason OMC engineers built them in odd-pitch sizes, is they could better match them against their aluminum sisters.
In other words a 15-inch pitch SST will perform at speed as well as a 16-inch AL, but it will have the pulling power of a 14-inch AL out of the hole. Almost like getting two props in one. But you pay almost double.
These claims are fairly well documented within the industry. Is the difference noticeable? With instrumentation, yes. With the seat of your pants? Probably no.
OBTW, with their original Teflon coating, OMC's SST's are were originally black. But paint is cheap so it's easy to judge the prop by it's weight, rather than paint color. Don't get "taken" on eBay, always check the original Part number!
Lee
On Aug 18, 2009, at 7:31 AM, BLDFW wrote:
Did you have an aluminum prop beforehand and if so, did you experience a notable performance increase when switching to SS?
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC Sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Tue, 8/18/09, Dave Rusilas <drusilas@...> wrote:
From: Dave Rusilas <drusilas@...>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made
To: omc-boats@...
Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:56 AM
Yes. I have one on my '69 155. 14" dia x 19" pitch. SS props have odd pitch numbers.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: BLDFW <bldfw@...>
To: Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's <omc-boats@...>
Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 6:54 pm
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made
There such a thing as an SS blade for our type of sterndrive?
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC Sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Lee Shuster <Lee.Shuster@...> wrote:
From: Lee Shuster <Lee.Shuster@...>
Subject: [OMC-Boats] Precision Propellers Industries - How They're Made
To: "'Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's'" <omc-boats@...>
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 2:47 PM
http://www.turbo-props.com/cPage.php?id=389
Watch interesting Video link to learn how boat props are made.
Lee
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________OMC-Boats mailing listOMC-Boats@...://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
One thing I need to add to this discussion: Just because you have a guage with a needle it does not necessarily mean you have a true analog gauge with a continuous reading -- it may very well be nothing more than a fancy idiot light. Sometime about the mid-90s, I was shocked to learn the temperature guage on my car migrated from being an full-scale analog meter to a 3-position indicator with the needle showing cold, normal, or hot and nothing more. Any apparent movements in-between are completely meaningless -- it is not a guage, but an indicator. This was done for cost reduction and warrantly improvement (less sensitive to calibration variation) and miffs me in a big way because I can no longer tell when things are starting to heat up, only that they are okay or too hot. I'm not saying all guages are like this (from my small sampling, "work trucks" still use full scale guages while cars use indicators that look like guages), just that some are and often its impossible to tell them apart just by looking. The connection to boats is you need to be careful of what you install as well as when towing. So much for the "If it looks like a duck argument."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Shuster (lib1)" <lib1@...>
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:45:03 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] &0 Seasport Overheat issues
Ron,
All the wiring diagrams I've ever looked at for all OMC/Johnson/Evinrude boats show separate, individual bulbs for both HOT and OIL senders. It very well could be on later (67-up) models these bulbs are physically housed behind a common lens on the helm? Some models may use combinations of gauges and idiot lights, so I'll assume you have no gauges and only lights.
The temperature switch/sender should CLOSE, providing a ground to the light right around 195 - 205 deg F. (Normal operating temps are 140 to 170 deg F) The common OMC part no is 379756 for the temp sender switch. These are equipped with 1/4 blade terminals. What indications beside the light to use observe the HOT condition? DO you know how to check the TELL-TALE water-stream indicator on the STARBOARD sterndrive pivot point?
If you use a temperature GAUGE rather than the idiot light, use OMC part no 171960. These measure about 450 ohms at 100 deg F and drop to 130 ohms at 160 deg F. These are equipped with a threaded terminal with hex nut and require a ring terminal. You can replace the idiot light sender and install a much more informative gauge . But you need to use the appropriate sending unit.
The wiring is common to either type, so no wiring changes are required except for the forementioned terminal. The temp senders are usually located on top of intake manifolds near the thermostat housing.
I seriously doubt you have an oil pressure issue (assuming you HAVE checked the dip stick for proper oil level). You can also change out the switch type sending unit for a oil pressure gauge. The oil pressure gauge sending units are physically larger and most like WILL require a threaded pipe fitting adaptor to provide required physical clearance.
I've done both water temperature and oil pressure gauges on my boat and find the water temperature gauge far more informative over a variety of conditions. Lights are either ON or OFF, where gauges obviously have the advantage of providing a range of information.
Oil pump? Extremely doubtful. But very easy to check: Disconnect the wiring lead from the oil switch sender. Connect an ohmmeter between sender terminal and good ground. Turn on ignition switch. Observe ohmmeter, which should indicate a closed circuit (simulating a OIL LIGHT ON condition). START engine, observe ohmmeter indication m OPEN CIRCUIT (simulating an OIL LIGHT OFF condition.) If meter doesn't immediately indicate an open circuit after starting engine and increasing idle to 2000 RPM, shutdown engine and replace sender switch. If new switch, doesn't open circuit while engine is running, check lubrication system (oil pump) or check for excessive main bearing wear.
I'd bet on cooling first.
Good luck.
Lee
On Aug 17, 2009, at 9:19 PM, Andy Perakes wrote:
I don't have any materials with me, but I could've sworn the idiot lights were for oil pressure and water temperature. I seem to recall one light says "Oil" and the other "Hot," but you could have different instrumentation. Anyhow, the one and only time my "Hot" light came on, it was a bad water pump.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Mathewson
To: omc-boats@...
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:40 PM
Subject: [OMC-Boats] &0 Seasport Overheat issues
All interested,
I got all the tilt issues work out, brand new battery and set out for another sea trial. Starts easy, idles smooth but was not accelerating very well and I attribute that to old gas and sitting for so long. After 10 or so minutes of putting along @... RPM I get the red "Hot Oil " warning lot on. If I slow it down it will turn off. I'm still getting a tattle tale stream from the outdrive and no other issues I can see. First question: Is that Hot Oil light a pressure or temp switch and where is it collecting the data from? I ran it a little longer after the light came on and it got real hot, but I have no way of know HOW Hot. I shut it down and had my friend tow me back in. Good news, it re starts so it's not broke inside. Oil pump?
Any words of advice will be helpful.
Ron Mathewson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "omc-boats-request@..." <omc-boats-request@...>
To: omc-boats@...
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 12:00:00 PM
Subject: OMC-Boats Digest, Vol 28, Issue 29
Note: Forwarded message is attached..
Send OMC-Boats mailing list submissions to
omc-boats@...
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
omc-boats-request@...
You can reach the person managing the list at
omc-boats-owner@...
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OMC-Boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (Lee Shuster (lib1))
2. Re: OMC/Johnson and Evinrude Shifter switches (jd)
3. Re: 1964 Sweet 16 (...and another) (jd)
4. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (jd)
5. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (Lee Shuster (lib1))
-----Inline Message Follows-----
JD,
The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
Does that make sense?
BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
Lee
On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>
> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>
> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>
> jeff d
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
OMG! I think entire shifters come up on ebay for way less!
For those who care - my glue job held to reassemble switch, lubed the hell out of it, but as soon as I moved the little lever back and forth to test it broke again. Shouldn't have happened. But the fit with those little plastic pieces is so tight, i think that is what caused it to break in the first place. Too tight to rotate. Maybe old plastic shrunk a little or something? Anyway, installed my 1 yr older metal back up switch and everything seems to work fine. Haven't tested F/R at dock yet, but should be fine. That metal switch is nice and smooth, feels solid. No neutral safety feature, but oh well - just have to be careful and not start in gear. So this websites "new" switches for $195 look like they are entirely plastic. Not even the arm is metal. I would be wary.
On Aug 14, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Lee K. Shuster (lks) wrote:
> New Replacement Switch for "only" $195.79
> http://www.sterndrive.info/electric_shift_replacement_switch.html
>
> Maybe Phil could add this link to the website?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Shuster (lib1)" <lib1@...>
> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...>
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:07 AM
> Subject: [OMC-Boats] OMC/Johnson and Evinrude Shifter switches
>
>
>> Jeff D,
>>
>> Yes the black knob is a throttle friction adjustment.
>>
>> But the switch you mention is worth alerting all OMC electric shift owners about:
>>
>> There are four different switches used on OMC boats. The dividing line was 1969. Two for E-rudes, two for Johnson/OMC's.
>>
>> Both Evinrude (push-button) and Johnson/OMC (single lever) and third party (like Morse) introduced the 5-wire Neutral-only starter interlock circuit, for 1969, most likely as a result of liability concerns, but I don't know for sure. (If you remember, a lot of federal safety legislation was mandated in 1968 on the automotive industry, as a result of Ralph Nader's book, "Unsafe at Any Speed."
>>
>> Prior to 1969 all remote control shift swicthes used only 3-wires and did not have the safety interlock. E-rude pushbuttons all have a mechanical sliding "aperature" that prevents operating the shifter buttons beyond a partial throttle setting.
>> If this ever slips out of place, and prevents you from shifting (being stuck in neutral, at your favorite fishing hole, 5 miles off shore is not FUN!) simply carry your hand Phillips-head and pop off the cover surround the push buttons. This will allow you do move the slider back into place and allow you to now engage forward or reverse.
>>
>> In my opinion, the Evinrude design, while perhaps less ergonomic (it takes two hands to simultaneously move the throttle and shift, as in docking) is a more robust design, and the switch assembly rarely fails. Johnson owners aren't as lucky.
>>
>> The Johnson/OMC switches are a weak point and often fail. In fact, I've come across a couple of sources for present-day, aftermarket sources. A gentleman, in Portland, OR is rebuilding these switches and a Canadian source has claimed it has ramped up production of new switches. (I have no direct experience with either and I'll leave it to others on this list to track them down and have Phil add it to his website.)
>>
>> Bottomline is these switches are like gold. In either style, 5 or 3- wire they are extremely hard to come by. Supply and demand dictates market prices. Anyone who owns a Johnson should start looking for a spare today! You should locate the current third-party sources. Just buying a used control off eBay, won't insure you are getting a useable switch. About half of them are defective, or will soon fail.
>>
>> I've also got a little tip for 69-70 Johnson 5-wire owners. I find that once in awhile my 5-wire, will only "reset" properly if I "back" the throttle into REVERSE after shutting down the engine in NEUTRAL. I call this my built-in, anti-theft device, like having to know the secret key-code combination. Only problem with this little quirk, is you don't want a big barge bearing down on you when your forget the code!
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>>
>>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>>
>>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>>
>>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing.. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>>
>>> jeff d
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>>> OMC-Boats@...
>>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
.....and another one in Oregon......
I drove by it, saw from a distance, have no idea of condition. It's in a used boat parts store yard with a bunch of other boats. yard is located at about 220th and Sandy Blvd in Fairview (basically Portland). I have no idea how rare those boats are but maybe it's a good find too. I actually drive by that spot all the time and would be more than happy to snap a few photos and post for any non-portland peeps interested on the list. Lemme know. Jeff D
On Aug 15, 2009, at 6:34 AM, Ted Robinson wrote:
> Hi all,
> There is a 1964 Sweet 16 advertised locally for $400.00.
> Anyone want me to look at it for them?
>
> Ted Robinson 1970 SeaSport
> Terrebonne, Oregon
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
oh jeez. ok this is weird.
-I've looked at that screw and associated parts in both the housings i have and it just seems to be connected to nothing. Hard to understand conceptually how the things does ANYTHING, but i believe you.
- unless im missing something, this particular adjustment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. i'm confused. When would you ever need an adjustment that controls hot/cold starts and the position of the "gas" lever? That seems like putting an adjustment on a cars gas peddle to control whether or not you give it gas when you start it. Why?
- now i am wondering if i really screwed things up and perhaps played around with that screw and that's what caused that plastic disk piece in the switch to break? I easily could have, but don't remember at what point i actually started messing with the screw. All i know is it was sort of behaving wierd. Sometimes cranking, sometimes not.. And moving the red lever may have made a difference in there somewhere cause i'm sure out there on the water i was in a slight panic moving stuff back and forth. But I DIDN'T mess with the screw out on the water. Then at some point got it to crank again. Perhaps the red lever position? Then back at dock assumed i had some electrical thing happening with the switch. I think that's probably the point where I fiddled with the screw - mainly out of curiousity (as in "hmmm what's this do?")- while disassembling and testing the switch. The whole things seems weird and I'm still not really understanding that screw. But maybe i tightened it too much or something trying to see what it did, played with the throttle lever, and broke my switch? Really doubtful - i'm pretty careful. But it seemed to be doing nothing when i turned the screw. The shift lever moved the same, the red lever moved the same. Who knows.
Nice to know that screw adjustment can completely disable your boat though. If a boat is not starting, that is probably the last thing anyone would check!
On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Lee Shuster (lib1) wrote:
> JD,
>
> The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
>
> I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
>
> In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>
> If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
>
> Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>
>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>
>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>
>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>
>> jeff d
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
Yup, I didn't realize it tell I read it with my own eyes. It's just another example of why it pays to RTFM. I cross-referenced and the Seloc manual mentions it as well, but in a slightly more confusing manor than the factory OMC manual.
And OBTW, the 1969 OMC/Evinrude/Johnson manual doesn't mention the 5-wire units. But 1970 and newer does.
Remember this applies to only the 5-wire Johnson & OMC controls. E-rude PUSH-BUTTON owners can ignore. Your "LOCK-OUT" failure typically allows you to start the engine, you just can't shift. (Covered in a prior posting.)
My ski lessons got rained out today at Jordanelle Reservoir, near Park City. 46 F and 3-ft white caps at 08:15 AM. Never got of the trailer. Oh, well.
Lee
On Aug 15, 2009, at 12:04 PM, jd wrote:
> oh jeez. ok this is weird.
>
> -I've looked at that screw and associated parts in both the housings i have and it just seems to be connected to nothing. Hard to understand conceptually how the things does ANYTHING, but i believe you.
>
> - unless im missing something, this particular adjustment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. i'm confused. When would you ever need an adjustment that controls hot/cold starts and the position of the "gas" lever? That seems like putting an adjustment on a cars gas peddle to control whether or not you give it gas when you start it. Why?
>
> - now i am wondering if i really screwed things up and perhaps played around with that screw and that's what caused that plastic disk piece in the switch to break? I easily could have, but don't remember at what point i actually started messing with the screw. All i know is it was sort of behaving wierd. Sometimes cranking, sometimes not. And moving the red lever may have made a difference in there somewhere cause i'm sure out there on the water i was in a slight panic moving stuff back and forth. But I DIDN'T mess with the screw out on the water. Then at some point got it to crank again. Perhaps the red lever position? Then back at dock assumed i had some electrical thing happening with the switch. I think that's probably the point where I fiddled with the screw - mainly out of curiousity (as in "hmmm what's this do?")- while disassembling and testing the switch. The whole things seems weird and I'm still not really understanding that screw. But maybe i tightened it too much or something trying to see what it did, played with the throttle lever, and broke my switch? Really doubtful - i'm pretty careful. But it seemed to be doing nothing when i turned the screw. The shift lever moved the same, the red lever moved the same. Who knows.
>
> Nice to know that screw adjustment can completely disable your boat though. If a boat is not starting, that is probably the last thing anyone would check!
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Lee Shuster (lib1) wrote:
>
>> JD,
>>
>> The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
>>
>> I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
>>
>> In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever..
>>
>> Does that make sense?
>>
>> BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>>
>> If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
>>
>> Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>>
>>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>>
>>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>>
>>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>>
>>> jeff d
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>>> OMC-Boats@...
>>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________ OMC-Boats mailing list OMC-Boats@... http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
Exactly. My late model Ford Crown Vic has an analog oil pressure gauge that is connected to nothing more than a switch sender. It's strictly a "1" or a "0" but it looks like a duck.
Some corporate bean counter got the bright idea to save a buck. And who knows? Maybe that very bean-counter is why Ford alone didn't have to declare bankruptcy?
Lee
Sorry for the Off-topic comment/ personal opinion
On Aug 18, 2009, at 8:19 AM, ANDY PERAKES wrote:
One thing I need to add to this discussion: Just because you have a guage with a needle it does not necessarily mean you have a true analog gauge with a continuous reading -- it may very well be nothing more than a fancy idiot light. Sometime about the mid-90s, I was shocked to learn the temperature guage on my car migrated from being an full-scale analog meter to a 3-position indicator with the needle showing cold, normal, or hot and nothing more. Any apparent movements in-between are completely meaningless -- it is not a guage, but an indicator. This was done for cost reduction and warrantly improvement (less sensitive to calibration variation) and miffs me in a big way because I can no longer tell when things are starting to heat up, only that they are okay or too hot. I'm not saying all guages are like this (from my small sampling, "work trucks" still use full scale guages while cars use indicators that look like guages), just that some are and often its impossible to tell them apart just by looking. The connection to boats is you need to be careful of what you install as well as when towing. So much for the "If it looks like a duck argument."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Shuster (lib1)" <lib1@...>
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:45:03 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] &0 Seasport Overheat issues
Ron,
All the wiring diagrams I've ever looked at for all OMC/Johnson/Evinrude boats show separate, individual bulbs for both HOT and OIL senders. It very well could be on later (67-up) models these bulbs are physically housed behind a common lens on the helm? Some models may use combinations of gauges and idiot lights, so I'll assume you have no gauges and only lights.
The temperature switch/sender should CLOSE, providing a ground to the light right around 195 - 205 deg F. (Normal operating temps are 140 to 170 deg F) The common OMC part no is 379756 for the temp sender switch. These are equipped with 1/4 blade terminals. What indications beside the light to use observe the HOT condition? DO you know how to check the TELL-TALE water-stream indicator on the STARBOARD sterndrive pivot point?
If you use a temperature GAUGE rather than the idiot light, use OMC part no 171960. These measure about 450 ohms at 100 deg F and drop to 130 ohms at 160 deg F. These are equipped with a threaded terminal with hex nut and require a ring terminal. You can replace the idiot light sender and install a much more informative gauge . But you need to use the appropriate sending unit.
The wiring is common to either type, so no wiring changes are required except for the forementioned terminal. The temp senders are usually located on top of intake manifolds near the thermostat housing.
I seriously doubt you have an oil pressure issue (assuming you HAVE checked the dip stick for proper oil level). You can also change out the switch type sending unit for a oil pressure gauge. The oil pressure gauge sending units are physically larger and most like WILL require a threaded pipe fitting adaptor to provide required physical clearance.
I've done both water temperature and oil pressure gauges on my boat and find the water temperature gauge far more informative over a variety of conditions. Lights are either ON or OFF, where gauges obviously have the advantage of providing a range of information.
Oil pump? Extremely doubtful. But very easy to check: Disconnect the wiring lead from the oil switch sender. Connect an ohmmeter between sender terminal and good ground. Turn on ignition switch. Observe ohmmeter, which should indicate a closed circuit (simulating a OIL LIGHT ON condition). START engine, observe ohmmeter indication m OPEN CIRCUIT (simulating an OIL LIGHT OFF condition.) If meter doesn't immediately indicate an open circuit after starting engine and increasing idle to 2000 RPM, shutdown engine and replace sender switch. If new switch, doesn't open circuit while engine is running, check lubrication system (oil pump) or check for excessive main bearing wear.
I'd bet on cooling first.
Good luck.
Lee
On Aug 17, 2009, at 9:19 PM, Andy Perakes wrote:
I don't have any materials with me, but I could've sworn the idiot lights were for oil pressure and water temperature. I seem to recall one light says "Oil" and the other "Hot," but you could have different instrumentation. Anyhow, the one and only time my "Hot" light came on, it was a bad water pump.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Mathewson
To: omc-boats@...
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:40 PM
Subject: [OMC-Boats] &0 Seasport Overheat issues
All interested,
I got all the tilt issues work out, brand new battery and set out for another sea trial. Starts easy, idles smooth but was not accelerating very well and I attribute that to old gas and sitting for so long. After 10 or so minutes of putting along @... RPM I get the red "Hot Oil " warning lot on. If I slow it down it will turn off. I'm still getting a tattle tale stream from the outdrive and no other issues I can see. First question: Is that Hot Oil light a pressure or temp switch and where is it collecting the data from? I ran it a little longer after the light came on and it got real hot, but I have no way of know HOW Hot. I shut it down and had my friend tow me back in. Good news, it re starts so it's not broke inside. Oil pump?
Any words of advice will be helpful.
Ron Mathewson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "omc-boats-request@..." <omc-boats-request@...>
To: omc-boats@...
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 12:00:00 PM
Subject: OMC-Boats Digest, Vol 28, Issue 29
Note: Forwarded message is attached..
Send OMC-Boats mailing list submissions to
omc-boats@...
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
omc-boats-request@...
You can reach the person managing the list at
omc-boats-owner@...
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OMC-Boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (Lee Shuster (lib1))
2. Re: OMC/Johnson and Evinrude Shifter switches (jd)
3. Re: 1964 Sweet 16 (...and another) (jd)
4. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (jd)
5. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (Lee Shuster (lib1))
-----Inline Message Follows-----
JD,
The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
Does that make sense?
BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
Lee
On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>
> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>
> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>
> jeff d
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
OMG! I think entire shifters come up on ebay for way less!
For those who care - my glue job held to reassemble switch, lubed the hell out of it, but as soon as I moved the little lever back and forth to test it broke again. Shouldn't have happened. But the fit with those little plastic pieces is so tight, i think that is what caused it to break in the first place. Too tight to rotate. Maybe old plastic shrunk a little or something? Anyway, installed my 1 yr older metal back up switch and everything seems to work fine. Haven't tested F/R at dock yet, but should be fine. That metal switch is nice and smooth, feels solid. No neutral safety feature, but oh well - just have to be careful and not start in gear. So this websites "new" switches for $195 look like they are entirely plastic. Not even the arm is metal. I would be wary.
On Aug 14, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Lee K. Shuster (lks) wrote:
> New Replacement Switch for "only" $195.79
> http://www.sterndrive.info/electric_shift_replacement_switch.html
>
> Maybe Phil could add this link to the website?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Shuster (lib1)" <lib1@...>
> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...>
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:07 AM
> Subject: [OMC-Boats] OMC/Johnson and Evinrude Shifter switches
>
>
>> Jeff D,
>>
>> Yes the black knob is a throttle friction adjustment.
>>
>> But the switch you mention is worth alerting all OMC electric shift owners about:
>>
>> There are four different switches used on OMC boats. The dividing line was 1969. Two for E-rudes, two for Johnson/OMC's.
>>
>> Both Evinrude (push-button) and Johnson/OMC (single lever) and third party (like Morse) introduced the 5-wire Neutral-only starter interlock circuit, for 1969, most likely as a result of liability concerns, but I don't know for sure. (If you remember, a lot of federal safety legislation was mandated in 1968 on the automotive industry, as a result of Ralph Nader's book, "Unsafe at Any Speed."
>>
>> Prior to 1969 all remote control shift swicthes used only 3-wires and did not have the safety interlock. E-rude pushbuttons all have a mechanical sliding "aperature" that prevents operating the shifter buttons beyond a partial throttle setting.
>> If this ever slips out of place, and prevents you from shifting (being stuck in neutral, at your favorite fishing hole, 5 miles off shore is not FUN!) simply carry your hand Phillips-head and pop off the cover surround the push buttons. This will allow you do move the slider back into place and allow you to now engage forward or reverse.
>>
>> In my opinion, the Evinrude design, while perhaps less ergonomic (it takes two hands to simultaneously move the throttle and shift, as in docking) is a more robust design, and the switch assembly rarely fails. Johnson owners aren't as lucky.
>>
>> The Johnson/OMC switches are a weak point and often fail. In fact, I've come across a couple of sources for present-day, aftermarket sources. A gentleman, in Portland, OR is rebuilding these switches and a Canadian source has claimed it has ramped up production of new switches. (I have no direct experience with either and I'll leave it to others on this list to track them down and have Phil add it to his website.)
>>
>> Bottomline is these switches are like gold. In either style, 5 or 3- wire they are extremely hard to come by. Supply and demand dictates market prices. Anyone who owns a Johnson should start looking for a spare today! You should locate the current third-party sources. Just buying a used control off eBay, won't insure you are getting a useable switch. About half of them are defective, or will soon fail.
>>
>> I've also got a little tip for 69-70 Johnson 5-wire owners. I find that once in awhile my 5-wire, will only "reset" properly if I "back" the throttle into REVERSE after shutting down the engine in NEUTRAL. I call this my built-in, anti-theft device, like having to know the secret key-code combination. Only problem with this little quirk, is you don't want a big barge bearing down on you when your forget the code!
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>>
>>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>>
>>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>>
>>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing.. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>>
>>> jeff d
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>>> OMC-Boats@...
>>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
.....and another one in Oregon......
I drove by it, saw from a distance, have no idea of condition. It's in a used boat parts store yard with a bunch of other boats. yard is located at about 220th and Sandy Blvd in Fairview (basically Portland). I have no idea how rare those boats are but maybe it's a good find too. I actually drive by that spot all the time and would be more than happy to snap a few photos and post for any non-portland peeps interested on the list. Lemme know. Jeff D
On Aug 15, 2009, at 6:34 AM, Ted Robinson wrote:
> Hi all,
> There is a 1964 Sweet 16 advertised locally for $400.00.
> Anyone want me to look at it for them?
>
> Ted Robinson 1970 SeaSport
> Terrebonne, Oregon
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
oh jeez. ok this is weird.
-I've looked at that screw and associated parts in both the housings i have and it just seems to be connected to nothing. Hard to understand conceptually how the things does ANYTHING, but i believe you.
- unless im missing something, this particular adjustment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. i'm confused. When would you ever need an adjustment that controls hot/cold starts and the position of the "gas" lever? That seems like putting an adjustment on a cars gas peddle to control whether or not you give it gas when you start it. Why?
- now i am wondering if i really screwed things up and perhaps played around with that screw and that's what caused that plastic disk piece in the switch to break? I easily could have, but don't remember at what point i actually started messing with the screw. All i know is it was sort of behaving wierd. Sometimes cranking, sometimes not.. And moving the red lever may have made a difference in there somewhere cause i'm sure out there on the water i was in a slight panic moving stuff back and forth. But I DIDN'T mess with the screw out on the water. Then at some point got it to crank again. Perhaps the red lever position? Then back at dock assumed i had some electrical thing happening with the switch. I think that's probably the point where I fiddled with the screw - mainly out of curiousity (as in "hmmm what's this do?")- while disassembling and testing the switch. The whole things seems weird and I'm still not really understanding that screw. But maybe i tightened it too much or something trying to see what it did, played with the throttle lever, and broke my switch? Really doubtful - i'm pretty careful. But it seemed to be doing nothing when i turned the screw. The shift lever moved the same, the red lever moved the same. Who knows.
Nice to know that screw adjustment can completely disable your boat though. If a boat is not starting, that is probably the last thing anyone would check!
On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Lee Shuster (lib1) wrote:
> JD,
>
> The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
>
> I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
>
> In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>
> If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
>
> Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>
>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>
>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>
>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>
>> jeff d
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
Yup, I didn't realize it tell I read it with my own eyes. It's just another example of why it pays to RTFM. I cross-referenced and the Seloc manual mentions it as well, but in a slightly more confusing manor than the factory OMC manual.
And OBTW, the 1969 OMC/Evinrude/Johnson manual doesn't mention the 5-wire units. But 1970 and newer does.
Remember this applies to only the 5-wire Johnson & OMC controls. E-rude PUSH-BUTTON owners can ignore. Your "LOCK-OUT" failure typically allows you to start the engine, you just can't shift. (Covered in a prior posting.)
My ski lessons got rained out today at Jordanelle Reservoir, near Park City. 46 F and 3-ft white caps at 08:15 AM. Never got of the trailer. Oh, well.
Lee
On Aug 15, 2009, at 12:04 PM, jd wrote:
> oh jeez. ok this is weird.
>
> -I've looked at that screw and associated parts in both the housings i have and it just seems to be connected to nothing. Hard to understand conceptually how the things does ANYTHING, but i believe you.
>
> - unless im missing something, this particular adjustment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. i'm confused. When would you ever need an adjustment that controls hot/cold starts and the position of the "gas" lever? That seems like putting an adjustment on a cars gas peddle to control whether or not you give it gas when you start it. Why?
>
> - now i am wondering if i really screwed things up and perhaps played around with that screw and that's what caused that plastic disk piece in the switch to break? I easily could have, but don't remember at what point i actually started messing with the screw. All i know is it was sort of behaving wierd. Sometimes cranking, sometimes not. And moving the red lever may have made a difference in there somewhere cause i'm sure out there on the water i was in a slight panic moving stuff back and forth. But I DIDN'T mess with the screw out on the water. Then at some point got it to crank again. Perhaps the red lever position? Then back at dock assumed i had some electrical thing happening with the switch. I think that's probably the point where I fiddled with the screw - mainly out of curiousity (as in "hmmm what's this do?")- while disassembling and testing the switch. The whole things seems weird and I'm still not really understanding that screw. But maybe i tightened it too much or something trying to see what it did, played with the throttle lever, and broke my switch? Really doubtful - i'm pretty careful. But it seemed to be doing nothing when i turned the screw. The shift lever moved the same, the red lever moved the same. Who knows.
>
> Nice to know that screw adjustment can completely disable your boat though. If a boat is not starting, that is probably the last thing anyone would check!
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Lee Shuster (lib1) wrote:
>
>> JD,
>>
>> The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
>>
>> I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
>>
>> In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever..
>>
>> Does that make sense?
>>
>> BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>>
>> If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
>>
>> Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>>
>>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>>
>>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>>
>>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>>
>>> jeff d
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>>> OMC-Boats@...
>>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________ OMC-Boats mailing list OMC-Boats@... http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OMC-Boats mailing list
OMC-Boats@...
http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
Received on Tuesday, 18 August 2009
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0 : Tuesday, 29 July 2014 EDT